Overtone 如何將現有解決方案帶入一個未知的市場（尚未）

Felix： Shopify Masters 由 Shopify 提供支持，這是最簡單的在線銷售、面對面銷售以及介於兩者之間的任何地方的銷售方式。 要獲得 30 天的延長試用期，請訪問 shopify.com/masters。

Maegan：就我們如何通過影響者進行交流而言，我們真正要做的是，我會儘早給他們發電子郵件，然後說，“嘿，我們有這個產品。我們喜歡你的頭髮。我們很樂意給你一些。我們很樂意讓您嘗試一下。這是它的使用方法。這就是它的本質。

菲利克斯：嘿。 我叫菲利克斯。 我是 Shopify Masters 的主持人。 每週我們都會從像您這樣的電子商務專家和企業家那裡學習成功的關鍵。 嘿，我的名字是菲利克斯。 我是 Shopify Masters 的主持人。 每週我們都會從像您這樣的電子商務專家和企業家那裡學習成功的關鍵。 在本集中，您將學習如何審查您的供應商，如何確定員工在 30 天內是否合適，以及如何在目標客戶根本不了解您的解決方案時克服教育差距。 今天我加入了 Liora 和 Maegan overtone.co。 這就是 OVERTONE dot CO。 oVertone 護髮素讓您的夢幻色頭髮在第 60 天看起來像在第一天一樣明亮。 它始於 2014 年，在托斯卡納和丹佛設有兩個總部。 歡迎 Liora 和 Maegan。

梅根：嘿。

莉奧拉：謝謝。 謝謝你有我們。 菲利克斯：是的，很高興你們倆都上場。 告訴我們更多關於您從商店銷售的產品的這些護髮素。 梅根：是的。 我們的顏色沉積調節劑系列是我們目前的主要產品。 我們在兩種不同的護髮素類型中提供 22 種不同的顏色。 基本上，這個想法是如果你有幻想的頭髮顏色，任何粉紅色、藍色、綠色，類似的東西，它往往會很快消失。 我們製造的護髮素正好滿足了市場的需求，因此您的頭髮不會褪色。 基本上，您要做的就是停止使用常規的白色護髮素。 相反，請使用我們的一種與您的頭髮顏色相匹配的護髮素，它可以代替您從下水道中沖洗掉的色素。

Liora： Maegan 和我都吃過你的蛋糕，也吃過。 我們對染髮時需要改變的生活方式並不滿意。

Maegan：我們不會因為你不能洗頭而去洗冷水澡或跳過健身房。

莉奧拉：不，是的。

Maegan：諸如此類的事情。

Felix：我猜當時沒有替代方案嗎？ 沒有其他產品可以滿足你們兩個需要的確切需求嗎？

莉奧拉：沒有。 有一種非常流行的本土 DIY 方法，您可以將染料與護髮素混合。 有時，造型師會為那些擁有夢幻色彩頭髮或高保養需求的客戶製作。 在我們使用的顏色中，沒有什麼是真正直接面向消費者的。 出於這個原因，它絕對是一種高等教育產品。 我們所關注的很多事情都是盡可能提供最好的客戶服務，並真正教育幻想頭髮顏色的世界他們不必洗冷水澡，他們可以鍛煉，而且他們的頭髮沒有淡出。 他們不必根據褪色好不好來選擇染料品牌。 是的。 真的不多。

梅根：是的。 根據個人經驗，我們還發現，標準的 DIY 染料和護髮素混合物確實會與您使用的護髮素中的潤膚劑混為一談。 基本上 ...

莉奧拉：只是有點繼續乾燥。

Maegan：是的，只是繼續讓你的頭髮變乾。 從化學上講，它會抵消護髮素中的好東西。 然後，你的頭髮，如果你有幻想色的頭髮，可能已經漂白了很多，那麼你的頭髮實際上並沒有定期進行調理。 我們想要的東西不僅是你不必讓你的頭髮褪色，你不必洗冷水澡，而且你可以讓你的頭髮健康並長出來，讓它變得正常。 我們不想頭上有粉紅色的稻草。

Felix：你們都來自美髮和美容行業嗎？ 有什麼背景。

梅根：沒有。

莉奧拉：否定的。 實際上，我們倆都沒有。

Liora：我，在我們創辦公司之前，我是一名自由攝影師。 我在美容方面做過幾次。 我在當地與當地新興的時尚和美容人士一起工作。 濃厚的興趣，但在生產和零售層面沒有專業知識。

Maegan：在此之前，我有化學背景。 我在醫療保健和商業領域工作。 我的頭髮很奇怪，希望它持續更長時間。 它來自個人需要，而不是任何事情。

Liora： Maegan 真的是個行家。 當我們第一次創辦公司時，我認為她還想參加一個會議。 就在她把頭髮染成藍色之後。 其中，像銅或橙色一樣，您可以擁有可接受的健康狀況是 IT 職位。

Maegan：不是藍色的。

莉奧拉：不是藍色的。

Maegan：我帶了假髮。

菲利克斯：很好。 至少，這似乎是一個非常令人生畏的產品，對吧？ 你必須了解這個新行業，了解如何製造這樣的產品。 在我到達那里之前，您是否有其他在 oVertone 之前創業或推出產品的經歷？

Liora：我的意思是，對於自由攝影來說，這是一種不同的商業基礎。 我在高中時做過很多小企業的工作，擔任助理之類的工作。 我認為 Maegan 經常這麼說。 如果我們知道這將是一個多大的挑戰，我們就會早點停下來。

Maegan：我可能還沒有開始。 我們都有經營小型企業和他人企業的經驗。 我們倆也都有過創辦自己的半成功公司的經驗，這些公司並沒有真正走多遠，也不是真正可以貨幣化的大努力。 我們不是沒有經驗的。 我們絕對沒有為即將發生的事情做好準備，這是肯定的。

Liora：這對我們倆來說絕對是一個驚喜。 我認為，我們真的很從容。 這有點像我們倆都像人一樣，當工作來臨時，我們已經做好了準備。 我們只是有點像，“好吧。這就是我們接下來六個月需要做的事情。太棒了。讓我們放心去做吧。” 當潮水真的轉過來的時候，我們沒有淹死，但我們確實跌倒了一點。

梅根：是的。 老實說，我認為在此過程中幫助我們的大部分是很多直覺，以及在緊急情況下投入汗水和胃酸的意願，就像每週工作 100 小時一樣。

莉奧拉：血。

菲利克斯：你們倆遇到的這些大驚喜中有哪些比預期的要困難得多？ 或者，也許你根本沒有預料到，他們只是落在了你的腿上？ 這些大驚喜有哪些？

Liora：我們絕對沒想到給瓶子貼標籤會這麼難。 我們製造和填充我們所有的產品，但它在行業中的運作方式是你應該製造你的產品，填充你的容器，然後給它們貼標籤。 我們真的需要在標籤部分的填充物上走來走去，比如收藏或它的那一部分。 我們沒有意識到這就是問題所在，但是當我們試圖給瓶子貼上標籤並發送給我們時，我們一直遇到這些大障礙。 就像，“哦，我的上帝。為什麼我們不能完成這件事？”

Maegan：我們有很多質量很差的標籤。 第一次，很長一段時間，甚至可能是前六個月，我們都是手工給每一瓶貼上標籤，因為我們有一個可以信賴的標籤供應商，他們只能給我們寄來像我們一樣的標籤不得不撕下自己。

莉奧拉：是的，那是血液進來的地方。你給那麼多瓶子貼上了標籤，我想我的老繭剛剛開始從你的拇指上消失，因為你推了它[串音 00:07:58]。 是的，如果您第一次購買了 oVertone ...

梅根：六個月。

莉奧拉： ……六個月，你肯定得到了一個手工標記的瓶子。

菲利克斯：也許上面還有一些血跡。

Maegan：那種東西 [聽不清 00:08:12] 我認為這是人們在幕後沒有意識到的那種東西，即使我們已經到了被認為在毛利率方面相當成功的地步銷售，我們自己仍然在做這麼多，我們只是在推動這麼多。 這個過程仍然如此手動和定制，我們仍在做很多事情，我們自己的工作也是如此。

菲利克斯：今天，當你在尋找提供這些標籤的供應商時，只是你們學到的一個教訓，你可以與處於你所處階段的其他人分享，你如何確定什麼樣的供應商可以為您的產品提供良好的標籤嗎？

Maegan：隨著時間的推移，我們發現我們必須真正停止尋找供應商並開始尋找合作夥伴。 我們這樣做的方式是對我們打算使用的任何人進行非常認真的審查過程。 尤其是任何將成為我們整個供應鏈流程中潛在庫存的人。 例如，對於標籤，我們花了很多時間討論、徵求建議、進行大量搜索。 當我們開始著手處理時，我們聯繫了幾家公司，我們的第一個危險信號是，如果您沒有在 24 小時內（至少 48 小時內）回复我們，您將被淘汰。

莉奧拉：是的。 我們必須追趕你才能給你錢，這對我們來說是一個很大的危險信號，這將花費我們很多時間。

Maegan：我們有太多次供應商只是沒有響應。 他們很難溝通。 這是最簡單的危險信號。 然後我認為我們嘗試與任何供應商合作夥伴關係做的另一件主要事情是真正打電話給他們的其他客戶並感受與我們同行的人，也是電子商務的人，如果相關的話，做類似的人瓶子類型，瓶子形狀，多重傾斜，類似的東西，並從他們那裡獲得關於這種關係如何為他們工作的反饋。 這可能是最能說明問題的。 我們有很多供應商，我們一直非常熱衷於，然後我們和他們的客戶談過，他們就像，“嗯，他們很好，但是......”

莉奧拉：是的。 然後，一旦您選擇了該合作夥伴，就建立了關係。 通過我們目前的瓶子和標籤供應商，我們實際上在他們的團隊中交換了銷售合作夥伴。 我們與高層管理人員進行了交談。 當我們發現不符合我們的 QC 標準的問題時，我們確實確保他們知道，而不是以預期的方式。 我們希望他們將我們的標準作為他們的標準，因為他們代表著我們。 當事情看起來並不像我們需要的那樣完美，或者有輕微的失誤或發生了什麼事時，我們確保他們知道，以便我們將來可以糾正它。 結果，我們與他們進行了真正響應式的溝通。 當我們需要知道什麼信息時，他們知道我們需要知道哪些信息。 我們知道如何向他們解釋我們需要完成的流程。

梅根：是的。 因為我們必須經歷如此多的尋找標籤，並且將其作為我們供應鏈中如此艱難的一部分，所以我們現在與標籤供應商建立了非常好的關係。 我認為它只需要經歷那個。 在某種程度上，它肯定是在海平面上，但在任何公司的執行團隊層面，大多數情況下，他們都在乎。 他們想要成功。 他們希望與您建立夥伴關係，即使您是一條小魚，並且您覺得自己在這裡沒有真正的可玩性並且無法拉動任何弦，因為您還不夠大，對他們不重要。 高管層的人，尤其是初創公司，如果他們是您的合適合作夥伴，他們會看到增長潛力，並且他們真的想要一種有效的關係，如果您嘗試與他們合作，他們會與您合作.

菲利克斯：是的。 我絕對看到尋找合作夥伴而不僅僅是供應商的價值。 我猜，這是否需要從一開始就設定這種期望？ 您如何確定您正在尋找合作夥伴？

Liora：我認為對於我們年輕的千禧一代女性企業家來說，最大的困難之一是，我的意思是，我們倆都在 30 歲以下。我們開始的時候是幾歲？ 24、25？

梅根：是的。

Liora：我們最大的困難是 Maegan，我並不一定缺乏信心，但要接近一家我們認為更成熟、業務更大的公司，這對我們來說是真正的信心拉動。 我們不一定覺得我們可以拿到這麼多錢。 我認為很多掙扎基本上是走進去然後說，“聽著。我正在做事。我正試圖作為一個合作夥伴與你合作。我想以那種方式與你交談，而不是感覺在他們的憐憫之下。” 這實際上只是一個自信的遊戲，說“我的業務與我旁邊的人的業務一樣重要。我的產品同樣重要，因為它對我來說同樣重要。”

費利克斯：有道理。 現在，今天，我想你是在暗示你自己不再這樣做了。 您是否將這個貼標籤和裝瓶的過程外包出去了？

Liora：我們試圖外包我們的很多流程。 我們學到的是我們將外包標籤。 我們不能外包生產或灌裝。 我們的特定產品適合兩個市場，因此不一定有很多結構支持它。 我們會和護髮素的人談論顏色，他們會不知所措。 我們會與有色人種談論護髮素，他們會因為無法將其融入現有系統而不知所措。 我們最終做的是創建自己的系統和方法，並僱傭員工以盡可能快地擴展。 那時我們落後了。 我們就像，“我們需要盡快做到這一點。” 創建易於進入的系統，我們可以培訓人們，讓他們在一個舒適的環境中，讓他們有信心自己做出決定，然後去做。 直到今天，我們仍然生產和填充我們的每一件產品。 我們只是不再手動標記它們，我們不再自己實現它們。

梅根：是的。 Liora 和我已經有一段時間沒有自己做過了。 我們肯定很久沒有在我的廚房裡做過了。

Felix：這肯定是一個複雜得多的系統，而不是僅僅將整個過程外包，甚至可能有錯誤的成分，直接去找製造商，直接去找執行任務的人，卻看不到他們的庫存。 您必須查看您的一些庫存。 你必須把它發送給另一個，我猜，一個處理其餘部分的外包合作夥伴。 帶我們完成這個系統的創建過程。 聽起來很複雜。 我認為，尤其是與其他系統相比，您的系統可能是獨一無二的，因為有很多過程是在內部完成的，但也有很多是外包完成的。 告訴我們有關設置它的過程。

Liora：我認為從外面看似乎很複雜。 我認為創建可持續系統的唯一方法，我認為 Maegan 會同意，就是盡可能地簡化它。 如果您可以為您的產品貼上私人標籤並直接在您存儲的地方沒有庫存，就像欺負您一樣。 恭喜。 我羨慕你的狗屎。

Maegan：如果你沒有必要，我們特別不贊成製造你自己的產品。 如果你能找到一個很好的合作夥伴來為你做這件事，那就太好了。 我們試圖外包我們的，但它不會發生。

莉奧拉：這不會發生。 我們已經建立了一個絕對令人難以置信的團隊。 我們喜歡和他們一起工作。 我們能夠看到我們的產品的真正好處之一是我們可以對每批產品進行真正的質量控制。 對我們產品的密切關注確實使我們的標准保持在高水平，這正是我們喜歡它們的地方。 就開發流程而言，我的意思是，我們從字面上看是從每次銷售只生產一瓶，到大規模生產。 我們基本上採取了我們已經在做的步驟，嘗試通過使用我們可用的工具來盡可能多地自動化它們，而不是太擔心“在專業實驗室他們會使用 x”。 我們將其簡化並說：“好的，我們需要的最終結果是什麼？整個行業中存在的類似項目的現有工具是什麼？我們如何利用這些項目為我們謀取利益？” 到目前為止，它運行得非常好。

Felix：現在，一旦你創建了這個系統，然後將其中的一部分外包出去，我們還有多少空閒時間？ 你有多少時間被釋放，你把時間花在了哪些事情上。

Maegan：這是一個有趣的問題，主要是因為我認為......

莉奧拉：搞笑。

Maegan： ……我們剛剛開始第一次問自己，我們想用我們的額外時間做什麼。 我們現在有 16 名員工。 在大多數情況下，一開始，老實說，我們沒有太多空閒時間。 我們並沒有真正騰出任何東西，而是將我們正在處理的事情轉移到其他迫切需要完成的事情上。 在我們業務的前 18 個月，甚至可能是兩年，我們一直處於缺貨狀態。 那是我們最大的困難。 作為一個初創公司，我們需要確保我們的客戶服務非常好，但我們還需要確保我們的製造達到標準，以便我們可以儲存所有東西。 我們有一個維護產品。 我們必須隨時為需要的人準備好東西。 真的，當我們建立了可以僱用員工並讓他們進入現有系統以與我們現有的製造合作的系統時，老實說，總會有其他的東西。 這裡總是有問題的員工，或者缺少客戶服務，需要這個東西。 或者我們與我們的履行提供商發生了火災。 我們現在才兩年半，在大多數情況下，我們真的能夠走出去，在業務上工作，制定戰略，從比以前更高的層次看到動態的部分。 真的，我不知道當時有沒有這麼多東西被打開了，因為它只是被其他東西取代了，下一個最大的火來了。

莉奧拉：就像，讓我給你舉個例子。 Maegan 和我過去常常，嗯，在最初的六個月裡，Maegan 是在她家外面做我們所有的製作和履行。 我正在做其他所有事情，這意味著我們實際上沒有時間考慮我們要去哪裡。 我們每天都被如此鎖定。 到 2015 年 1 月左右時，我們可能每隔一個月進行一次生產運行，我們會聘請兼職人員和臨時工，一次可能只有一兩個。 他們會在生產過程中幫助我們。 雖然 Maegan 和我會進行灌裝、裝瓶和包裝以運送到我們的履行公司，但在任何休息時間，我都會回复客戶服務電子郵件，而 Maegan 將與供應商打交道。 在這期間的任何時候，我們都在致力於我們的營銷和社交媒體。 我們試圖自拍。 我們確保我們的頭髮看起來很好，所以如果我們有任何廣告，我們就有一些東西可以表明我們正在改進系統。 真的，我想說我們仍然，仍然有一些時刻我們會被吸回到日常生活中。 可能只是在過去的兩個月裡才有機會退後一步，喘口氣，然後一切順利。 從字面上看，既然我們可以看到它，我們可以在哪裡改進。 這是非常寶貴的。

梅根：是的。 從來沒有真正有過在某個地方缺乏對某些東西的非常明顯的需求。 Felix：在短短兩年半的時間裡，16 名員工是一大堆新員工。 你偵察了很多。 你們對引進新員工的入職流程有什麼了解。 我認為這是僱用某人最令人生畏的部分，因為很多時候，特別是當你只是一個在公司工作的人時，你正在僱用你的第一個員工，可能是兼職或臨時員工，你開始思考， “伙計，我是想把時間花在教這個人上，還是應該把時間花在做那件事上，然後繼續做下一件事情？” 它確實需要投入時間。 告訴我們新員工加入貴公司的流程。

Liora： Maegan 和我是相當不錯的代表。 放開我們的樂高積木去研究其他東西對我們來說並不總是那麼大的挑戰。 我們很早就幸運地找到了一些了不起的人，他們真的只是靠運氣和直覺認為你會很棒。 情況並非總是如此。 有時你的員工認為他們是很棒的人，你愛他們，但這並不合適。 他們會在其他地方表現得更好。

Maegan：我也認為，隨著時間的推移，你會發現在你的組織中什麼是有效的。 我不知道這真的是一個適合所有人的東西。 我認為你不可避免地會有一個猜測和檢查系統，你搞砸了，也許如果你以同樣的方式搞砸了幾次，你會開始看到，“哦，這是一個嚴重的問題。” 我們發現，就個人而言，我們不僅一直在努力工作。 我們公司有一種非常重要的文化，人們要么適合，要么不適合。 我們發現這是一個人成功的一個重要因素，即使他們的工作很出色，即使他們非常適合其他人，如果你不適合我們的文化，那真的行不通。 可以這麼說，我們都必須朝著同一個方向划船。 從邏輯上講，我們發現了一些其他的小事，就像我們注意到我們的員工，至少，在我們的業務中，如果他們收到主動加薪，他們往往會發瘋。 我們必須改變與人一起加薪的方式，為某人提供升職機會，並給他們 72 小時的時間考慮並說是或否，而不是僅僅說：“嘿，你做得很好。我們想要給你升職，這是你的加薪。” 我們發現那行不通。 其中一些是小東西。 我認為隨著時間的推移會看到你環境中的人的行為方式。

莉奧拉：是的。 我認為 Maegan 和我一起所做的真的，我們有，我們來自非常不同的地方，我們以一種互補的方式看待事物非常非常不同。 我們共同創造的文化，起初我很難坐在那裡說，“哦，這對每個人來說都不是完美的環境。” 這對我的自尊心有點打擊。 老實說，這絕對是我的短視。 我要創造這個東西，我們要去做，它會很棒。

Maegan：將成為每個人的必殺技。

莉奧拉：會很完美的。 這就像現實一樣，這不是世界的運作方式。 有不同類型的人以不同的方式表現出色。 我們早期希望做的一件事是創建一個橫向的員工結構，因為我們認為如果我們在某個地方工作，我們會更喜歡這種結構。 我們學到的是，我們的特定組織和其中的人，我們早期加入的人，或者關於 Maegan 和我的方式，或者我們所有人，我們整個團隊作為一個集體所做的事情是我們做的很多在傳統結構中做得更好，我們往往會做得更多，這樣我們會取得更好的成功。

Maegan：我們討厭並且完全試圖抵抗。

莉奧拉：我們真的很抗拒。

Maegan：就像五顏六色的頭髮千禧一代一樣，我們就像，“我們不會有任何結構。我們在這個地方不需要結構。” 事實證明我們是超級傳統的。

Liora：是的，我們非常傳統。 每次都會讓我們的一位導師發笑。 我想當我告訴他我們正在這樣做時，他坐下來對我笑了整整 30 分鐘。 他就像，“你太傳統了。” 我就像，“閉嘴。” 是的。

Felix：讓我們談談這個，橫向工作結構。 一開始是什麼吸引你？ 為什麼沒有成功？

Liora：我認為 Maegan 和我只是習慣於自己在公司裡做所有事情，我們認為我們可以讓每個人都了解所有事情，而且實際上我們非常透明。 我們每週都會與在場的所有員工談論奮鬥和成功。 我們不會隱藏任何東西，但我們會構建信息的輸出方式。 我認為當我們不這樣做時，當我們試圖建立一個橫向的員工結構時，即使是在小公司規模，當我們可能只有四五個人時，我們注意到反應並不好，它沒有不要以我們希望和期待的方式建立那種團隊道德。

Maegan：我認為，當事情更加橫向時，人們很難在工作職責範圍內保持穩定。 我認為對於一些可以工作的公司。 對我們來說，因為我們有這樣特定的細分部門，所以確實沒有。 隨著規模的擴大，我們看到的越來越多。 我的意思是，它更多的是來自我們的願望。 作為員工，我們想要什麼？ 這就是我們嘗試這樣做的原因。 我們認為這對我們來說非常有效。 然後，這只是一個支點。 我認為無論如何，企業所有權都是關於轉向的。

Liora：我認為我們學到的，也是我們想要的不是別人想要的。 不是每個人，我知道我已經說過了。 這次我的意思實際上是不同的。 Maegan 和我都是企業家。 我們以特定的方式思考。 我們以特定的方式工作。 我們受到特定事物的激勵。 顯然，不是每個人都是企業家。 有些人想成為企業家，但不是。 有些人希望盡可能快地朝相反的方向跑。 有這樣的人想為企業家工作，但不是他們自己。 創建一個適合企業家的結構，我不知道它是否一定對為企業家工作的人來說是個好兆頭。 擁有一家公司 [串音 00:26:12] 什麼都做不了。

Maegan：我們試圖僱用我們在早期看到自己的人。 在大多數情況下，這不起作用。 僱用更具創業精神或想成為企業家的人。 我認為，我們無法理解這樣一個事實：很多人，真的，非常高興成為員工，因為我們從來都不快樂成為員工。 我認為，在一定程度上，要讓你的員工快樂並保持團隊合作，你必須能夠同情每個人，並知道什麼對他們有意義。 最終，隨著時間的推移，真正了解每個人的大腦是如何運轉的，以及在每個位置你需要什麼樣的大腦。

Liora：我們實際上剛剛得到了一些很好的招聘建議，那就是真正列出我們公司的價值觀以及我們在內部真正認為重要的東西。 與其特別關注技能，不如關注那些價值觀。 這個人會在這里工作嗎？ 他們會被我們所激勵的事物所激勵嗎？ 對於我們公司來說，那種遵循內省女權主義的路線，與你的團隊保持直接和清晰，能夠接受和給予嚴厲的愛，練習良好的喧囂而不是壞的喧囂，如果你發現一些事情或者不打敗自己失敗，把你的健康放在第一位，只是，還有什麼？

Maegan：清晰，誠實。

莉奧拉：是的，[聽不清 00:27:38]。

Maegan：基本上，它的要點主要是我們關注平等，我們努力工作並且我們非常誠實。 每個人都必須給予和接受。 菲利克斯：嗯-嗯（肯定）。 聽起來你們倆都隨著時間的推移而建立的一項重要技能是，你們能夠快速招聘，而且如果不合適的話，似乎也會迅速解僱或放手。 根據您的經驗，您如何確定某人是否適合公司並儘快匹配您寫下的那些價值觀？

Liora：老實說，說實話，這對我們來說仍然是一項正在進行的工作。

Maegan：我們試圖在前 30 天內讓人們起床或下班。

莉奧拉：我們願意。 這一直是過去六個月的重點。 我們不想留住某人，因為我們知道從長遠來看，如果關係不好，對任何人都沒有好處。 這對他們沒有好處，對我們也沒有好處。 作為第一次雇主，哦，天哪，這太具有挑戰性了。 這他媽的是最糟糕的。 我不希望我的第一次經歷向任何人開槍。 我不希望任何人都有第一次被我解僱的經歷。

Maegan：不，這對所有參與其中的人來說都很糟糕。

莉奧拉：只是，不好。

菲利克斯：人們會感到驚訝嗎，儘管當它發生時？ 或者你是否試圖讓它不一定是相互的，我猜，但他們看到了它的到來？ 總是這樣，還是出人意料？

Liora：我們開始實施一種試用結構，這樣它就不會再出人意料了。 這是我們最不想要的，就就業而言，這並不令人意外。 Maegan 和我開始更多地傾聽的是我們的直覺。 我們鼓勵我們的經理也以這種方式思考。 就像您知道它是否不起作用一樣。 當你可以大聲說出來的時候，可能已經太晚了。 開始傾聽你的直覺。 早點大聲說出來，看看它是否可以修復。

梅根：是的。 我認為，老實說，我們擴大規模的最大障礙是保持一支優秀的團隊並在合適的地方擁有合適的人。 這是我們的一個非常重要的焦點，尤其是現在，但一直都是。 就像 Liora 說的那樣，即使我們的員工可能正在滿足他們所有的 KPI 或者他們正在正確地完成他們的工作，但我們或他們的直接主管都會有一種感覺，那就是不合適，盡快正如我們想像的那樣，如果它可以緩解您的緊張情緒並使部門感覺更順暢，那麼我們就知道了。 這是我們的第一直覺。 很多時候，我們以此為基礎做出決定。 然後，一旦您讓自己看到這一點，您通常會經常突然看到該人不適合的所有其他地方以及該工作不一定適合他們的所有其他地方。

菲利克斯：你是否也在公司將人員從一個角色轉移到另一個角色？

Liora：我們以前嘗試過這種轉變。 我認為我們學到的重要的東西，我們真正堅持不懈的，是不要把某人釘在圓孔上。 如果他們不工作，你必須為他們創造一個角色，我知道你在談論在現有角色之間轉換，但如果你必須為某人創造一個角色，他們是不對的。

Maegan：我們稱之為楔形。 我們試過幾次。 它不起作用。

莉奧拉：這是一個楔子。 如果您必須將某人插入其中，那麼它不適合任何時期。 你應該從容應對。 他們應該修復它，您應該與他們一起修復它，或者是時候斷絕關係了。

Maegan: For the most part, I would say that when someone doesn't work within the company, it is almost 100% of the time a culture and values problem more than it is a skills problem. We have started really realizing that we can't shift someone into another position and make that work. We also think that over time when we've tried to move someone in a different position, it's been really hairy. People feel like they've been demoted even if they haven't. It creates a lot of resentment. Then it [crosstalk 00:31:35] everyone from communicating openly and honestly which is we have to do that or else we're screwed. If people are lying to each other than I think that's one of the number one things that will sink the ship. Liora: Yeah, no lying, no being catty about other employees. Call out not tear down.

Maegan: Aside from promotions which is a different kind of movement, if someone is not working out, we figure out why and up until now it's always just been that they're not a good fit for the company more so than they're not a good fit for that particular role.

Felix: Now do you have a traditional interview process, too? What's that process? How can you try and pull out these details about their values, about I guess their cultural fit just from meeting them for the first time even before they step, I guess, into their role at the company?

Liora: Tricky question asking. Each of our departments has a unique interview process. For our production, there's definitely physical qualifications that you have to pass. Meet the team, see how they interact in space, see how they respond to colorful hair. I think the important thing to recognize is you are never going to have that surefire thing. One of my favorite good hire stories is our executive VP Lisa [Net 00:32:43]. She was our second hire ever. We needed somebody to take over emails because I was dying. We were dying. I was like, "I need someone to answer emails." When I was working as a freelance photographer, Lisa [Net 00:32:54] had been the maid of honor or bridesmaid at a wedding I was photographing. I saw her walk into an extraordinarily tense situation that was giving everyone the chills and just diffuse it like it was no problem at all. She just walked in and just made it better in under three seconds.

Maegan: I pretty much hired her based on that.

Liora: Yeah. That was why we hired her. When we had the interview with her, I basically texted her and I was like, "Hey, listen. I know you're employed, but I also know you're looking to shift. Can you meet for drinks tonight?" She said, "Yeah, absolutely. I'll meet you there." We met up for drinks. She was, when we thought about our ideal client services person and the trait that they would embody, she was there for it. She was upbeat. She was happy about it. She was excited by the product. She wanted to talk to people all day. She enjoys helping people. She gains satisfaction out of making sure that somebody has something correctly. She gains satisfaction out of making sure people are happy and also out of making sure that the company benefits because of it. Then, at the end of the day, especially when you have more than one employee, your loyalty is exclusively to the company. It can't be to an employee who might not be working out the right way. You can work with them. You can try and make it better, but at the end of the day, you have to preserve the company. If they're not working out, if they're going to drag down your ship, you've got everybody else to think about, and also you have your clients to think about. Is this person hurting or helping my clients?

Maegan: We really work on a cultural understanding of the fact that our clients are a big deal for us. They pay everyone's bills. You have to love them. You have to be super happy about them. Everyone has to prioritize them. In terms of like, we talk about gut feelings a lot. We've already talked about that several times. Honestly, I think we sort of go through a traditional interview process, but a lot of it is gut instinct. We see do they get along with everyone on their team? It's not in a high school can you guys be friendly sort of way, but in the sense do you kind of click with everyone? That just goes back to that same cultural fit of are you going to row in the same direction at the same pace as everybody? 這是最重要的。 We can train people. One of our vice presidents right now started as Liora's assistant. She came in with significantly fewer skills than she has now. She came from [crosstalk 00:35:27], with absolutely no business experience and she has killed it. It's because she is driven and she's an excellent cultural fit. She's a kick ass human being. Sometimes you can tell. Then, also, if they don't fit in within the first 30 days, get them out soon.

Felix: Now, on the quantitative side, I think I heard someone mentioning KPIs. How's that set up for the different roles?

Maegan: It depends. For example, our color experts in the client services department have a certain number of emails that they're expected to get out per day. For the most part, we have had our managers in each department set what makes sense for them. For example, in manufacturing, we have how many units are getting out this week. To a certain extent, that can be a team effort. Then, for marketing, it can be based on videos, it can be based on sales or promotions, that sort of thing. We push all of our department managers to set weekly goals. Basically the meetings that Liora and I are really in with the team now are Monday morning one on one meetings that we have with each manager and then all of our executive team as well. Then we all, every one at a manager or executive level on Fridays comes together and talks about the goals that they had set on Monday, how they did. Then they also set goals for their team. We feed that down the pipeline on our traditional management structure. That is what works the best for us. 是的。 That's how we structure KPIs.

Liora: Yeah. Managers review goals with us. We help them set either more quantifiable or realistic ones or adjust it based on priorities that we're seeing for the company. Really, Maegan and I know that when we were doing each of those jobs, it was a very different company. We rely on them to be honest with us about their needs.

菲利克斯：很好。 Now I want to talk a bit about the marketing side. When you mentioned earlier, I think one of you mentioned how it's a high education product because nothing like this exists yet. Maybe people don't even know a solution is available out there. Talk to us about how you overcome this education gap in the market.

Maegan: Yeah.

Liora: Repeating.

Maegan: Repeating. 是的。 When we started out, Liora was really handing client services and I was handling marketing. Those were our babies growing up. We split production as much as possible and gave that up first. On the marketing side, Instagram has been really crucial for us. It's our biggest platform. We use Instagram primarily as a way to communicate through influencers, out to their audiences and have them explain what it is. Then just repetition. Starting from the ground up we spent a lot of time getting influencers on our team. I think because our product is different and new and exciting for people we got a lot of in with some pretty big influencers which was awesome for us.

Liora: A big great relationships. They're so fun and sweet.

Maegan: We love everyone that we've worked with that the influencers we work with are so excellent. A lot of them have been models for us. Basically, we push heavily through word of mouth. Something like 93% of our sales come from direct traffic. Someone who is either clicking a link to come directly to our page from either our Instagram or someone who is typing us into our browser and heard about us from a friend or somebody. Very little comes from search engines. Very little comes from, we do almost no paid advertising. We find that influencers and word of mouth through just people who use our product, our regular clients, really helps spread the message. It's a lot easier to understand if your friend tells you, "Hey, I use this thing. It's a conditioner, it keeps my hair bright," as opposed to trying to learn from ground zero, I guess. We do also have our website set up in such a way that education is first. We offer free color advice through our client services team and really every single aspect of our company is surrounding that initial market gap of getting people to understand that our product isn't dye and what it can do for you and why you need it.

Felix: You work with these influencers. I think, for a lot of companies, a lot of products, lot of brands, it's probably a lot easier because all you ever do is just put your product in the face of your target customers and people get it right away. Not only do you have to do that, but you also have to explain about the problem, about why there's a solution, why your product is the right solution. Tell us about how you I guess, work with influencers to I guess do all of that.

Maegan: For the most part, if you have colorful hair, you know there's a problem.

Liora: It's not a mystery.

Maegan: We don't have to teach you that there's a problem. We have a number of people who use our products instead of dye to color their hair from the beginning, which is something we didn't initially intend. That's a slightly different market that we speak to a little bit differently. For the most part, for our core client audience, the type of people, who they go to a salon, they have their hair colored blue for example, and they want to keep it that way and not have it fade out to an ugly muddy mess. Liora: Purple [inaudible 00:41:02].

Maegan: That's true. Purple is our best seller.

Liora: Maybe [crosstalk 00:41:05] a purple for like a solid year.

Maegan: These people, if you've ever had any fantasy color in your hair, you know that there's a problem. In terms of how we communicate through influencers, really what we would do is I would email them early on and say, "Hey, we have this product. We love our hair. We'd love to give you some. We'd love to have you try it. Here's how to use it. Here's what it is." We just had a lot of people really gravitate to our product because there was such a need in the market. We used that to find people who were really interested and people want an easy way to maintain their hair color. People who have this lifestyle and have this aesthetic. They don't necessarily want to be spending every fifth day of their life in a freezing cold shower because they have to keep their hair looking nice. I think everyone was really open to a solution. We had a really great response from our influencers. Then we just kind of said like, "Hey, I'm going to educate you on how this works. I'm going to tell you how to use it and then go tell the world whatever you want to tell them." We really didn't push astringent. We didn't give people words to say. We didn't say, "We want you to point out this, that and the other." It also helps to educate us on people's response to it and what they thought it was and how they used it. It gave us an example of how people used it in ways that we didn't expect initially, like to change their color slightly. Basically we would say, "Go talk to your audience. Tell them whatever you want to say. If you love it, great." That's a lot of how we spread the word.

Liora: I think something else that Maegan did amazingly well while she was writing these emails was she went straight into personalization. She looked at their Instagram profile very thoroughly. She saw what they did. She saw what they liked. She made specific references to that in her email. She didn't say, "We'd love to send you some products." She would say, "We really want to send you Pastel Pink Daily because we think that that would [crosstalk 00:43:08] in your hair." She really made sure that those influencers knew that they were cared about deeply and that we had taken the time to invest in that relationship. I think that was so key in making sure that we got a positive response. There was no blast emailing. It's always direct. It's always personal. We want to be sure that, and to an extent, our influencers are also our clients. We want to make sure that they know that we care about them, and that we care about their decisions and we care about their aesthetic. Of course, we're going to send them something personalized.

Maegan: Yeah. It's the same thing as with our vendors. Everything we do is all about partnerships. We want relationships with people. Lots of people say that it's a big thing in business, but I think it just takes a lot of time and effort and a lot of people kind of want to skip that step. I think that that's a big part of why we were successful.

菲利克斯：很好。 What has worked best in terms of I guess on Instagram when you are trying to educate your target customer about your products. Is it images? Is it video? Is it explaining the captions? What's worked best for explaining how your product works?

Liora: I think anybody on the internet knows that nobody reads the captions.

Maegan: No one reads the captions ever.

Liora: Nobody reads the captions. Maegan: Don't put anything you need, if you need to communicate it put it in the photo. Make a text photo if you have to. Don't put it in the captions.

Liora: Then repeat it in the caption. Know that most anybody is not going to do their own reading on an image based platform, especially. A lot of what Maegan and I found really useful early on and still now, and we've refined them so much, and they're so much more beautiful than they were originally, was that we showed our product on three different types of hair. We showed it on a platinum blonde, on a medium blonde and on a brown so that we have this library of photos to give examples to how people envision what it will look like on themselves. We also really, early on, we adopted a hashtag. We encouraged our clients to hashtag themselves. We started featuring them. Look, real life story. This person uses our stuff. They're not an influence. They're not anybody. They're our clients and they're important to us. We want to showcase how awesome they are. We want to make sure that you can envision if you have this color hair, you can get to here. Here's what they used, here's how they did it.

Maegan: Yep. To this day, 90% of what we have on our company's Instagram feed is a combination of those strand tests and reposts of clients who use our stuff. We love to show, especially people who like maybe they started with medium blonde and they put our teal on their hair and ended up with green, interesting color wheel stories or sometimes people who are just maintaining and have in their caption that says like, "Hey, I haven't dyed my hair three months. This feels great. My hair is super healthy now." We just really try to help tell other people's stories. That's the way we promote.

Liora: We want to celebrate the community's. We want to show of our client's creativity with our product, because honestly, they are the people who are going to do it the best. 我們很興奮。 We're going to bring some people into a space soon where we can film them coloring their own hair with our product and really continue to build up that library of resources.

Maegan: Yeah. Early on [crosstalk 00:46:08] when we didn't have as many of those, we only showed ourselves a lot more. We took a lot of selfies and kind of put that on the Instagram to get it up and going. Then we just gave away product. Given that we're in the beauty industry, our profit margins are healthy enough that we can afford to do that as opposed to marketing. It's much cheaper option for us. When we needed people's experiences, people's audiences, whatever, we just threw free product at them.

Liora: Mm-hmm (affirmative). We were generous with it. Maegan: Yeah. [inaudible 00:46:37] many people loved.

Liora: Yeah.

菲利克斯：是的。 Even though the products are like you're saying high margins, so you can't afford to give them away, it still takes obviously a lot of time to reach out to these people to personalize the message, to start working with them. I'm assuming that you're still probably pretty selective, though, right, with identifying which influencers you want to work with. What's the process for that? How do you pick and choose which ones you should spend your time on to write these personal emails to them?

Maegan: I haven't been doing it myself in some time. We have a director of marketing who does it now. 她太不可思議了。 A lot of what we look for in an influencer that will be successful for us is someone who also fits our culture in the same way that we would want an employee who fits our culture, someone who has kind of an aesthetic that we think would be really useful to our Instagram feed. We work very hard on keeping a diverse Instagram feed and showing our product on all types of hair, because it works on all hair types. We also focus on people's engagement, which I think is a lot more important than necessarily how many followers they have. Someone with a really strong level of engagement, good interaction with their followers and someone who has followers who kind of have this aspirational tone. We want people with followers who look to them for suggestions. We don't want somebody who's like just pimping out everything that comes their way, because it's free or whatever. They have a feel on their Instagram of whatever's the flavor of the day. We want people with some authenticity and also followers that pay attention to them and are listening to them for advice.

Liora: We did a couple of photo shoots with four of our influencers. We did, it was just so great. We did them about a year apart. You know somebody's a good fit in that way when you can just show up, meet them in person for the first time and you're like, "Hey, we're going to spend the next eight hours taking a picture of your face. How do you feel about that?" They're like, "I feel really good about it. Let's hang out." You order pizza and eat on set and you form real friendships with them. It's just so rewarding, honestly, to know that one, you created a product that you sent to them and it made their lives better, just like as a person because they don't have to live their lives around their hair, but also that you can then meet up and continue to collaborate across multiple threads. That is really nice.

菲利克斯：很好。 One thing that was mentioned in the pre-interview questions that I definitely want to touch on was that you guys want to focus on, or you focused on pivoting quickly and not committing to a mistake just because time had been put into it. Talk to us a little bit more about this. 你那是什麼意思？ Do you have any examples you can give?

Liora: Let's see. Not committing to a mistake. There are a lot of examples.

Maegan: Can you find that on Pinterest? On our Pinterest thing that you sent me?

Liora: I did. The first time I saw it it was on Pinterest. It resonated so deeply because Maegan and I are fast decision makers. We look at a situation and we have a backup feeling we're not happy with the way it's going. We're like, "You know what? We're going to change direction." We actually just had a major session like that this week where we've done a lot of reading and we've done a lot of looking at the market and what we've been doing, what's been working, what's not been working. We sat down and went, "Why hadn't this been working?" We had like four product ideas circulating for this year. We decided to literally backtrack on all of them, declutter, refine the vision and give it down to our team. Luckily our team is really used to us pivoting hard on a direction and saying, "Nope. We're making this change. This is what's happening. Here's a new direction. Here is why." They're really good at taking it on.

Maegan: Yeah. If I could narrow down, like if I had to pick one reason why we've been able to get to where we are, it's that we can pivot hard. We're really good at learning all the time, taking in new info. As soon as that new info brings a different decision or different path to light, we're like, "Yep, okay. That's the next thing. Move over that way."

Liora: For example, we purchased a custom, made for us, filling machine that was supposed to massively simplify our production process and ease up the workload on our production people. We spent an appropriate amount of money for what it was supposed to do on it, but a large amount for us in terms of what we had spent on machinery in the past.

Maegan: Yeah. It was six figures.

Liora: Yeah. The machine did not work. We spent time and money upgrading the electrical in our warehouse. We created a whole space for it. We designed a process around this machine. We tried endlessly with frustration and tears to get this thing to work. It is just like a giant metal monster right now and does not work. We sat down and our team is like, "This is not working." We're like, "Okay, we hear you. It's not working. We're going to pivot hard. We're going to instead increase production people. We're going to do semi-automated instead of fully automated. We're going to build up that way. Done. We're going to get rid of this thing."

Maegan: Yep. Just get rid of it. Take the loss. We actually specifically had a contract that we could get refunded for it if it did not work.

菲利克斯：很好。

Maegan: The company went out of business.

Felix: Not nice.

Liora: There was that.

Maegan: The point is, we're selling it. We're taking a loss. We're moving on to something else. The fact that it cost us a nice healthy chunk of money is not going to prevent us from moving to something that makes more sense.

Liora: Spending time being upset that we made the wrong decision cost us money.

Felix: I love that. I love that kind of attitude to be able to cut your losses and move on and not be so absorbed in doing things in a certain way just because you made that decision at the beginning. I think the difficult part that a lot of people have is how do they know that they're at a point where they should be making a pivot, versus maybe holding on a little bit longer and waiting for it to potentially, I guess, resolve itself or end up in a much more favorable spot by just staying the course. 你如何做出這個決定？

Maegan: I think we're just coming right back around to the thing we've been saying a bunch already which just it's a lot of gut instinct, really. We can feel if something's wrong.

Liora: For example, with the labels. We knew that pushing through with the labels was important for our business, that adjusting our entire manufacturing process wasn't going to work. We couldn't outsource it. We couldn't then shift our product to a filler to have them fill and then label it, just like the time was too much. We needed it done this way. That was a struggle that we put a lot of time into creating. We put the first six months of our company into getting out labels right. Something that didn't work for the long term was when we first started filling we were using 100 milliliter plastic syringes to fill every bottle, fill bottles that are 236 milliliters. We know that now. That in the short term was sustainable, in the long term not sustainable. We weren't going to invent a way to make a syringe work for us. We were going to completely pivot, try a different system that we didn't think was going to work, reach out to a new partner and say like, "Hey can you make this thing for us?" Like that's still how we fill right now. That really worked. If you feel like, I think the gut feeling kind of lends down to it. Do you feel like there's a light at the end of the tunnel? Can you adjust other processes around this? Yes/no. If you can't, even if you're really attached the idea, it's not worth chasing because it's going to be at the expense of your company. Like we said before, nothing comes before the company.

Maegan: Right. Really the lifestyle of what that looks like is like we will start feeling weird about something. We'll say like, "Wow, this is giving me a lot of headaches, more than it should. A lot of anxiety, whatever."

Liora: Like, "I can't eat for a week. I can't sleep."

Maegan: Yeah. There's some sort of negative energy around it, then we would be like, "Okay. Why is this happening? Oh, it's because we're looking at this and there's going to be a dead end in six months and we can tell that this system is not going to work. We're going to out grow it or we've already outgrown it and it's causing a bottleneck and we can't get around it. What do we need to do instead?" Then we will go forward with some sort of learning push where we will try and figure out as much as possible, learn everything around that subject, figure out what we could possibly do and then come together and do some brainstorming, figure out the next way to go, decide on an effort and push that way.

Liora: The important thing is to recognize that you're never going to hit on the right decision. There is no right decision [crosstalk 00:55:13]. You're going to make the decision that's right for you at the time, whether or not you have to change it down the road. Okay, you've failed? 沒問題。 Next idea. Go forth and fuck up.

Maegan: Practically no decision that we've ever made has been the right decision for more than six to twelve months. It's the right decision right now, but inevitably, you'll have to change it. It's just being comfortable looking at stuff that was right before, or maybe was never right and just saying like, "Nope, it's got to be different."

Felix: Awesome, awesome advice. Again, overtone.co is the store. What do you guys want to see the brand, the business be this time next year? What are the goals or the focuses this coming year?

Liora: We tripled last year. Maybe some pressure?

Maegan: No, quadrupedal.

Liora: Excellent. High five.

菲利克斯：太棒了。 Thanks so much for your time Liora and Maegan. Where else can listeners check out if they want to follow along with what you guys are up to?

Maegan: Our Instagram handle is @overtonecolor, OVERTONECOLOR. That's also our handle on pretty much everything else you can find us on, Twitter, YouTube and Facebook as well.

Liora: If you want to see pictures of Maegan's face, you can see it at @maeganscarlett. If you want to see pictures of my face you can see it @k_liora.

菲利克斯：太棒了。 We'll link all that in the show notes. 再次非常感謝。

Liora: Thanks for having us. Maegan: Thanks for having us.

Felix：這是下一集 Shopify Masters 的預告片。

Speaker 4: He actually said that they had fulfillment, sent us some tracking numbers. We passed them on to our customers. They said they were going to go active in like two days or something. Then we found out that those tracking numbers were not real.

Felix: Thanks for listening to Shopify Masters, the eCommerce marking podcast for ambitious entrepreneurs. 要立即開始您的商店，請訪問 shopify.com/masters 申請延長 30 天免費試用期。